Don't Buy A Car As-Is - Ep. XIX - Lehto's Law

"SteveLehto" (stevelehto) 02/19/2015 at 09:00 • Filed to: None

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I get phone calls at my office every single day from people who do not know what an "As-Is" disclaimer means. And they are curious because the car they just bought blew up or otherwise died and they can't figure out why the selling dealer won't help them.

I have talked about !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! on several occasions in a few different contexts but I thought it might be useful to devote a podcast to the "As-Is" sale. My advice? Do Not Buy A Car "As-Is" unless you really know what you are getting into and you have taken the necessary steps to protect yourself.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

The world would be a happier place if everyone knew this. And, my office would be a slightly quieter place, with the phones ringing less and whatnot. So, I present to you Lehto's Law Episode XIX.

!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

And the picture at the top? I worked in radio for many years as a disk jockey but was fired from my first job. I got a new job at a bigger and better station shortly after and my friend owned the drive-in theater which sat across the road from my old radio station. When I told him about my new job he put up the verbiage on the marquee you see above. My old boss had to look at that each time he drove into or out of the old station parking lot for the whole summer (my friend put the names of the movies they were showing on the other side).

You can subscribe to the podcast on iTunes: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Follow me on Twitter: !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 09:15

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The loyalty you seem to have inspired from your friend both frightens and impresses me.

SteveLehto > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 02/19/2015 at 09:20

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The amazing part is that this was in a small town I had not lived in before. I met him while living there and only knew him for the few months before I was fired.

Made the firing worthwhile.

thebigbossyboss > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 09:21

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I bought an as is car, because young and dumb. It worked out, but that was probably just luck.

McMike > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 09:35

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Now showing, Fridays at 5:00pm

Tapas > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 10:05

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Oh man its nice to have friends like that :)

Diesel > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 10:30

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Still doesn't excuse them showing Air Bud.

DrScientist > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 10:53

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hi steve, sorry don't have the time at the moment to listen to the podcast, but i assume this is specific to dealer sales/purchases?

i bought an XJS off of ebay with a big "AS IS" disclaimer at the bottom. like you said, i knew exactly what i was getting into. (still don't know why i did that) but i assumed any private sale was going to have no guarantees.

I Will Always Be The Honey Badger > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 10:56

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Pretty much all my vehicle purchases have been as-is, where-is, no warranty expressed or implied, etc. Then again, when you buy cars for $500 or less you're generally not too concerned. My pre buy inspection goes something like this. Some rust? That's ok. As long as the floors are there and I can't see through the body. Doesn't rattle, smoke excessively, or knock on startup? Good. Steering reasonably tight, brake pedal seems to do something, windshield is clear enough to pass inspection, and transmission grabs drive and reverse without slipping. Then a quick check of lights and fluids, and away we go. I generally ignore everything the buyer says and rely solely on my own mechanical knowledge to asses the vehicle.

Robert Chandler > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 11:54

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Always a great listen, thanks for posting! I retired 2 years ago from a tire and service shop in Texas. I did many used vehicle inspections. I'm sure you can imagine what we saw. The most memorable was a nice couple buying a car for their teenage son in the summer of 2012. The first car they had us inspect was a 2000 Camry 4 cyl. with 130-ish k miles from a private seller. Checked out great, we recommended they buy it. Kid wanted something "sportier" so they were back with a '98 Jetta with sporty wheels and great cosmetics from a private seller. It had problems a-plenty. Warning lights, fluid leaks, bad bushings and lots more. They bought the car against our advice. Needless to say, they were mad at us when the car wouldn't pass emission testing a few months later. I'm sure you have never had a client fail to your advice...

Kate's Dirty Sister > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 11:58

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Aren't private party sales always "as is" ?

blah > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:00

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'As is', is what I look for! Like you said, you need to know what you're getting into before you make the purchase. If you do know, and are mechanically inclined, and have a good supplier of parts that gives you 'jobber' rates, than "as is" means awesome deals!

SteveLehto > Robert Chandler 02/19/2015 at 12:02

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All we can do is tell them - it is up to them if they want to BELIEVE us.

Thanks for the note.

SteveLehto > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/19/2015 at 12:03

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Yes. But as long as you know that and act accordingly, you are fine.

I meet people all the time who do not know that.

Pending Approval > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:03

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my car was as is, but it only had 50k on the clock, and was a tight little car. I bought it from a small flipper, and typically those little dealers don't offer warranties.

It also helps that it was the car his wife had been driving around. I'd imagine he wouldn't ( well, he is a car salesmen, so he might ) let his wife drive around in something that had issues.

detailer4u > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:08

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Priceless! That is really cool. I am sure the old boss was not pleased. That was a true friend!

On to the topic. Education is the key. Prepare yourself and get all the information you can before you buy. Not only that, but what happened to good old fashioned common sense? I spoke to honest sales practices before, but at the end of the day "As Is" means exactly that. Everyone wants accoutability and very few want to take responsibility.

Steve already said it........." Do Not Buy A Car "As-Is" unless you really know what you are getting into and you have taken the necessary steps to protect yourself."

There are ways to protect yourself even at the point of purchase. Warranties and protection products are out there. Do the research and gather your data.

If you are not car savvy then find someone who is to help you. If you don't where to start, find someone and ask all the question you can. Ask all the questions of the seller as well. Having conections in the business is priceless. If you have contacts use them. You will make better decisions in the end if you have credible people behind you. it is not that hard in my opinion.

Contrary to popular belief, there are a lot of good, well intentioned people in the car business. Many are more than willing to do the right thing by their customers. I am not saying "screw you" because you bought it, just make good decisions based on research, referrals, professionals advice, etc.....

If you just jump in with no plan or information, then you must be willing to take responsibility for your decision and the outcomes. Do the best to protect yourself as Steve said....

Tim the KNinja > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:08

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"My old boss had to look at that each time he drove into or out of the old station parking lot for the whole summer ."

Oh, that is rich.

SteveLehto > Tim the KNinja 02/19/2015 at 12:10

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Sadly, I had moved away and did not get to see it in person but I have the photo and I HEARD all about it from people who were still there. It was a REALLY small town so pretty much everyone knew what it was all about.

MrHP > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:12

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M-53 Drive In in Bad Axe (seriously, what great name for a town).

The only time I can remember being in Bad Axe was, fittingly, picking up a 1941 Buick my dad had purchased. The drive-in was still there, to give reference as to how long ago that was.

maximum_sarge > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:12

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As a private seller, I always sell my cars "AS IS, WHERE IS, WITH NO WARRANTEE EXPRESS OR IMPLIED". Not being a dealer, I cannot absorb the cost of the stupidity of whatever thing the buyer might do as soon as he or she drives away. My cars are well-cared-for, and I always encourage buyers to have a mechanic check them out if they want to.

As a buyer, I prefer to buy from private parties because I get a WHOLE LOT more knowledge about the prior care and condition of the vehicle.

So, I suppose your advice might be good when applied to buying from a dealer, who likely knows less about the car than a given buyer, but I wouldn't tell people not to buy from private parties, which seems an implicit part of your advice.

*caveat: I didn't listen to the podcast, so this is based on what I could read.

VashVashVash > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:13

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Steve, I love your stuff, but hate the transition to pod casts. I can read your posts when I find them, but have to set time aside to listen, and so I often don't.

Perhaps there are people out there who prefer the podcasts, but I for one would sure like more written posts.

SensousLettuce > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:13

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Out of curiosity, maybe in the future you could compile a list of "best practices" when buying a new or used car? A lot of your articles are (understandably) what not to do when buying, but what about things that you think that you should do?

Zeniff > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:15

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That's an awesome friend.

SteveLehto > MrHP 02/19/2015 at 12:16

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That is the one. The Drive In got torn down in the mid 1980s I'm guessing. It was a neat little town.

That Guy That Said That Thing > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:16

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The only two questions you must ask yourself when are going to buy a car as-is, cash or private party:

1. Will I still be totally ok if I take a total loss on this?

2. Can I afford to buy two of these cars?

If the answer is yes to both then you'll be fine.

jlnbos > Kate's Dirty Sister 02/19/2015 at 12:17

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Not in Massachusetts.

SteveLehto > maximum_sarge 02/19/2015 at 12:17

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I explain the bit about private sellers versus dealers. ALL sales from private sellers are As-Is by definition.

My point here is NOT about private sellers. It is about buying from dealers.

DConsorti > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:19

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Another great one Steve!

Just to make a parallel, over here, the dealers CAN'T avoid the obligation to fix a car that breaks just after you buy it! So you can say that there is no "as is" clause over here, unless is a private party sale.

Well, let me try and explain: if you buy a car from another person, you can, but will be troublesome to make him/her pay for the repair, since YOU have to make proof that the car was sold with the problem and that the seller already had knowledge of the problem and omitted that from you. As you can imagine, it would be almost impossible, or at least very difficult!

But, if you buy the car from a used car dealer, you can summon the "Codigo de Defesa do Consumidor" (Consumer defense code), a federal law that oblige the dealer to prove that the defect was not there on the first place or that he informed you that the car had that problem and you agreed on buying it with the defect, taking responsibility!

Again, very hard for the dealer to prove that so, in the majority of cases, they will repair the car or even give you the money back.

SteveLehto > VashVashVash 02/19/2015 at 12:20

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This is not a transition. I have been doing podcasts for three or four months now (every week) and there is a huge amount of overlap between the two. I have written about this topic several times and pretty much covered it. The podcast was simply a way to condense the primary points into one unit. But other than my goofy comments at the front and back end, you will have seen all of the substantive content if you have read all of my stuff.

Thanks for the note. I am still submitting written pieces to Car Buying and Oppositelock.

SteveLehto > SensousLettuce 02/19/2015 at 12:21

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Thanks for the note. I'll start working on that!

Canadmos > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:26

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Some people in this world are just plain old awesome. It sounds like this is one of those rare peoples.

Oran J Sands III > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:27

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I sold a freshly painted Saab 99 to a guy I worked with (first mistake) as-is.. He drove it away and stopped in the road about 100 feet from my house. Got out of the car (didn't put the handbrake on) and watched it roll off the road into a tree, severely denting the trunk lid. He then came crying to me to refund his money.

WanderingWheels22 > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:28

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Granted, I am a gear-head and go over cars pretty hard, but I, and virtually everyone I know have always bought used vehicles as-is, until the widespread CPO and Carmax changes.

I understand the sentiment, especially with the low-info buyer but I would argue this should be "Lehto's Theory"

Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > DrScientist 02/19/2015 at 12:29

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> i bought an XJS off of ebay with a big "AS IS" disclaimer

Was that an aftermarket disclaimer or original equipment?

I've always wanted one of those (what a great looking car!), but never quite convinced myself that I could keep one running. Let's just say I drive by a couple of them but they never seem to drive by me, or for that matter even change position noticeably from day to day...

driftwhatever > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:30

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Other than CPO, I don't think I've ever seen a used car for sale that didn't have the "As-is" checkbox marked.

SteveLehto > WanderingWheels22 02/19/2015 at 12:30

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I did say that you shouldn't do it unless you understood what you are doing and budgeted accordingly. So, worded the other way: Buy As Is If You Know What You Are Doing . . . .

I did not say to not do it PERIOD.

The goal here is for everyone to know as much as possible about what the law is and what it does.

Maxxuman > DConsorti 02/19/2015 at 12:34

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Interesting comment, but where is the "over here" you refer to?

Sejji > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:35

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The advice is essentially don't buy a car from Craigslist, where 99.9% of posts come with "AS IS"

SteveLehto > Sejji 02/19/2015 at 12:37

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Buy all day long off Craig's List but just understand what you are buying. If from an individual, it is AS IS. If from a dealer and it is As Is, price accordingly (same as an individual). Just keep in mind that almost nothing the salesperson says is enforceable and so on.

Now, if it is a dealer posing as an individual (curb stoning) that is another problem altogether.

WanderingWheels22 > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:37

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I am aware, just my .02 and having a chuckle at your blog title "Lehto's Law"

Keep it up Steve, from a Michigander wanderer, I read your stuff because it's worth reading, and I can advise the relatives if needed!

SteveLehto > WanderingWheels22 02/19/2015 at 12:38

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Thanks. The name of the podcast is from a radio program I did in Flint a while back. My program director came up with it and I decided to revive it for this.

DrScientist > Ad_absurdum_per_aspera 02/19/2015 at 12:39

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ha.

yeah. i can't say she's been particularly... rugged? little bits and bobs break and then one thing leads to another... and then i'm replacing a starter motor and an alternator and have spent 4 days under the car.

i hate to say it. but these things are best kept by a hypervigilant owner.

mine... also hate to say... is currently sitting. but more from protection from the salt on the roads than tha it isn't in running condition. its lasted nearly 25 years without any rust. it'd be a shame to risk letting the rot creep in at this point. if only this winter would settle down a bit.

Travis M. Cotton > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 12:48

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"As Is" soon to be the only Range Rover warranty you can get.

windadvisory > maximum_sarge 02/19/2015 at 12:49

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When a car is traded in or goes through auction the "detailed" service records are stripped from the automobile which is why people say....

When buying from a dealer "History Is A Mystery"

And no......I do not consider information that shows up on a carfax a record of service.

Dealer Counter Point:

In my mind the "AVERAGE" used car that has less then 60,000 miles or that is less then 6 years old does not require extensive service history.

Why?

Because prior to 60,000 miles the only required services are fluid changes and brakes. Will lack of paper work for these items be a deal killer? No (Unless we are talking about an exotic)

DConsorti > Maxxuman 02/19/2015 at 12:50

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Sorry, I forgot to mention... Brazil

945T > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:05

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Wow good friend. Hope you're still close.

drdude > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:06

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This brings up a "Tarverish" like point of.... if you're going to buy an as-is car... why buy it from a dealership at all? Why pay for all that overhead, when you could buy a car for what the dealer would buy it for....?

sgtyukon > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:13

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Maybe all private sales are "as is" by definition, but when I've sold cars privately, they were old and had lots of miles on them. They were also cheap. I give an honest account of what I know is wrong with the car, but I specify in the bill of sale that they are "as is," with no warranty. I do my best to be honest and I want no misunderstandings.

The last car I sold was a'91 Corolla with 158 thousand miles in 2003. I encouraged him to take it to a mechanic. He didn't. I signed the DMV mileage certification because I bought it new. I said he could talk to my mechanic. He didn't do that either. He did test drive it, I did tell him what I knew was wrong with it. For instance, the back up lights don't work and I know it's more than the bulbs. I did see it on the road a few months later, so I guess it was okay.

SteveLehto > sgtyukon 02/19/2015 at 13:16

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Yes, it probably doesn't hurt to use the language in your sale documents (like a Bill of Sale if you use on) but it is not necessary from a legal standpoint.

I have heard stories from all over the spectrum. People like you getting sued a year after the sale (when you have done nothing wrong) to people who just rip people off and get away with it. You never know.

Thanks for the note.

ranwhenparked > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:20

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And that would be the the reason your phone is no doubt ringing off the hook with people you can't help. For what is (typically) the second most expensive purchase they will ever make, its amazing how little thought and research some people put into car shopping and only care to find things out after it goes wrong.

Downshift-Dave > Oran J Sands III 02/19/2015 at 13:34

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Go on...

GreenN_Gold > Tapas 02/19/2015 at 13:38

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It's nice to have friends that are lawyers!

GreenN_Gold > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:46

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Or buy new, but let's not open up that can of worms again.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:47

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Don't buy anything except a Corolla with a warranty, unless you understand why anything is else is unnecessary or a bad idea unless you have money or are a mechanic (with skills and money) or like to make yourself feel bad for long periods of time.

I like pooping. > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:49

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can we have this in text form?

I like reading while I poop.

Rick Brasche > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 13:53

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file this under Caveat Emptor or the english translation "No Sh*t, Sherlock!"

SteveLehto > Union of Smog Techs of CA 02/19/2015 at 13:56

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I wonder if anyone would have clicked that if I had used it as my headline?

SteveLehto > I like pooping. 02/19/2015 at 13:57

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The bulk of it is in the article which is linked in the piece (About your car exploding).

Tina Corbett > Oran J Sands III 02/19/2015 at 14:02

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........and then I slapped him upside the head for being such an idiot.

Union of Smog Techs of CA > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:02

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No, people obviously don't like common sense when they see it. That's why I sometimes have to see 3 or more Vanagons on any given work day.

Oran J Sands III > Downshift-Dave 02/19/2015 at 14:07

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He didn't get it.

GoesLikeHell > drdude 02/19/2015 at 14:08

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There's no reason you have to buy from the dealer, but at the end of the day it's easier for most people. The biggest thing is probably financing, it's quick and easy at the dealer because they do the work for you (at a cost of course).

I bought my truck 3 years old from a private party. Secured financing through my bank and went through a lot of steps to get his lein paid off, title sent to my bank and the truck finally home. I think it was two or three visits to the bank and lot of faxing and mailing documents back and forth. Being a few states apart didn't help matters. Overall it was probably 300% more work than the used car we bought from a dealer.

Now used cars with no financing involved, piece of cake going the private party route. I do that all the time, of course I'm buying stuff that's usually borderline junk, so as-is is expected. If you start at the bottom with low expectations then everything that does work on the car makes you feel good. Like how i get giddy everytime I open the glovebox on my van and a light comes on in there, or how cool it is that 3 out of 5 defrost strips work on the rear window (that's like 60%!).

sgtyukon > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:11

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Steve, That podcast was informative. Thanks. Is there any way to download your podcasts? I prefer to use an MP3 player and listen to podcasts while I'm on the go.

iska2000 > That Guy That Said That Thing 02/19/2015 at 14:16

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That's not an option for some people. I'm helping someone right now who needs to buy a car and has a maximum budget of $2000, and is buying it in a rust state. Needless to say, she's not going to get anything with a warranty. She'll be lucky if the damn thing has matching tires. Her answer to both questions is no, but she doesn't have enough money to spend on a PPI from a mechanic, much less get into the warranty territory. So she tapped me so that I can come along and look at the cars with her.

Good thing she did, too, because she's been getting excited about cars that already have the check engine light on (sellers always say "oh my mechanic told me it's such and such and is a cheap fix" — then why the hell didn't you fix it before you went to sell it you lying asshole?), or not only have mismatched tires, but mismatched *wheels*, or my personal favorite, the one that ran great until he got a hole in the oil pan, but his mechanic says just patch the hold with JB weld and everything will be fine. She was ready to buy all three of those cars until she showed them to me.

So, a 3rd question should be: If 1 and 2 are no, but I don't have a choice, 3) did someone who I can trust and who knows about cars tell me that they can't find any major problems with the car?

That's not a guarantee or anything - I might miss something, or it might have something about to fail that can't be found on a roadside inspection, but for some, it's the best option.

SteveLehto > sgtyukon 02/19/2015 at 14:20

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Not sure how to do that for now.

Deathocracy > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:25

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I was going to pounce on you saying Brno is the 2nd largest city in Czechoslovakia since that country doesnt exist anymore, but looked at population totals in both countries Brno is technically still the 2nd largest even in all of former Czechoslovakia!

SteveLehto > Deathocracy 02/19/2015 at 14:29

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Hey - for stuff like that I'm just using Wikipedia. I'm surprised I was even close.

Thanks for the note.

Sharon C. Phillips > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:31

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Start working at home with Google! It's by-far the best job I've had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this - 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail

———————————> http://www.jobsblaze.com

DConsorti > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:40

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amem to that!

Computerbudda > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:43

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One other point to make.....or maybe a new blog entry.....when you sell as a private individual, if your state permits it, file the form with the state saying you've sold the car. Don't trust the idiot buying the car to properly transfer the title like they promise to do!

Don't ask.

BTW, with SiriusXM, you can broadcast from anywhere.

Stiiles > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:51

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I can't agree more about how important prepurchase inspections are, and understanding "as-is".

I did prepurchase inspections at my shop and encouraged my customers to do them when I service managed three dealerships, whether they were looking at buying a private party vehicle or one of our used units. PPIs won't catch everything but they give the buyer (and sometimes the seller, too - sometimes they honestly don't know something is wrong) a heads up about visible issues. Avoiding a lemon/money pit/unrepairable headache is even more important than finding a good car. Avoiding buying something that needs $5,000 worth of work is the best $80 anyone could ever spend.

rudyH > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 14:58

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It's funny you mention that. I often see pics of "private party" sales where the pics of the cars have dealer plates. Often, the ads are clearly worded to make you think the guy has owned the car and loved it but just has to get rid of it. Yeah right!

SteveLehto > rudyH 02/19/2015 at 15:02

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I wrote a piece on that which I hope to get up shortly. A common scam, becoming even more common these days.

drdude > GoesLikeHell 02/19/2015 at 15:03

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you can fix the defrost strips pretty easily.

DavidHH > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 15:08

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Steve,

On the rare ocation that I don't break an unwanted car for parts, I sell them with an AS IS Contract, after giving the buyer a Pre-purchase Inspection from a reputable independent garage. So the buyer knows what they are getting into, and that it's now their problem.

GoesLikeHell > drdude 02/19/2015 at 15:09

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Yeah, least of my worries are the defrost strips, they work fine on my daily driver. The old van is just a parts runner. It's just fun to find things that still work on a $300 car.

LongLarry > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 15:17

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Years ago my dad had friends at a local Buick dealership. He also had a bunch of kids and needed extra cash so he asked about part-time sales. Instead they worked a deal with him where they transferred cars they didn't want on the lot to him & he sold them as private sales. Most were probably OK thought old/high mileage but a few were lemons the dealership didn't want to be associated with. My dad sold them for a while but then didn't want any part of peddling bad goods so he quit that. It always makes me leery of buying from private parties though now I guess dealers unload lemons at the auction houses instead.

C-Rod > sgtyukon 02/19/2015 at 15:32

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Couldn't agree more. I once sold a vehicle with a CEL on. I hadn't gotten it looked at since I only drove the car occasionally and advised the buyer to take it to a mechanic for inspection. He declined to do so and bought the car. Three months later he texts me complaining that it was a bent camshaft. Not my problem at that point.

WhatDaFunk > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 15:36

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I bought my last 3 cars from Craigslist and they've all been great. You just need to make sure you do your research, be patient, take it to a mechanic, and be willing to walk away. It sucks to pay for an inspection on a car you might not buy, but it can save you a lot of money. I had my heart set on buying a car after the test drive, took it to the mechanic and it needed over $10K in maintenance. It was hard to walk away from that car, but I'm glad I did.

Prophet of hoon > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 16:34

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My disclaimer, and it is on every bill of sale for every car I sell.

"I stand behind all cars purchased from me. If it breaks in my driveway I can push you out of my driveway. I warranty nothing, I don't even warranty what your are purchasing to be what you think it is. I also do not report the sale to the DOL. If you fail to report the sale and your car gets towed, I will go reclaim the car and you may buy it back from me for my full asking price plus what I call my "you're too stupid to have money" tax - which is $1.00 more than you have, will ever have, will win, or will be given to you in your natural life."

Funny thing... I've only had to use that "buy back" clause once - and I really did make him pay full price to get the truck back. I was feeling generous that day, and I'm also not sure that he had the capacity to make more than a dollar (nope, I don't ask where their money comes from).

BaconSandwich is tasty. > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 16:37

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Hmm, interesting.

We're considering getting a different vehicle for my wife, at which point we'll be selling her car. I'm not sure how the law works up here in Canada, but is there any sort of template bill of sale that covers all these sorts of bases?

For example, number of years ago I did some photography, and had people sign a general model release form. It was a pretty generic form, but it did make me feel a bit better legally. Would a generic sort of "one size fits all" document be worth anything in court, especially if it was signed and dated by both parties?

SteveLehto > BaconSandwich is tasty. 02/19/2015 at 16:44

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I'm not sure about Canada. In the US, yes.

ZCocia1972 > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 17:00

0

before I looked at the draft of $6693 , I have faith that my brother had been actualey earning money in their spare time on their computer. . there neighbour has done this 4 only 23 months and at present paid the debts on their cottage and bought a great new Lancia Straton .

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George McNally > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 20:24

2

Sold a 90 Legacy wagon to a teenager back the late 90's.

Had him and his mom sign a bill of sale that said "AS IS" with no warranty implied.

Wouldn't you know it, the very next day, junior blew the motor up.

Mom called me up and wanted her money back.......told them I'd see them in small claims court (it was a 1000 dollar car)....never heard from them again.

JDIGGS > SteveLehto 02/19/2015 at 23:32

2

Steve on the last used car I bought I wrote up a bill of sale and had him sign the car must pass a compression / leakdown with flying colors.

WinrickRacing > C-Rod 02/20/2015 at 13:03

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How does that happen and only (speculating) throw off timing!?

sadfasdf > SteveLehto 02/20/2015 at 14:25

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If you record everything the salesman says, are their promises enforceable?

SteveLehto > sadfasdf 02/20/2015 at 14:28

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No. They can admit they told you everything. It still wouldn't matter. What they tell you is not enforceable as a matter of law if the contract says specifically that it is not.

C-Rod > WinrickRacing 02/20/2015 at 14:36

1

No idea. Not like I could verify it. He claimed that it wasn't holding idle intermittently either. He could've been making it up for all I know. I only drove the car sometimes on weekends and didn't have any such issues. In any case, it wasn't my concern at that point.

WinrickRacing > C-Rod 02/20/2015 at 23:03

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Sounds like a Volkswagen! :p

sadfasdf > SteveLehto 02/21/2015 at 13:22

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There's always the court of Youtube.

SteveLehto > sadfasdf 02/21/2015 at 13:42

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Whole different approach. Since I am an attorney, I tend to approach things from a legal standpoint.

The only question then is whether it is legal to tape the person without their consent. In many states, it is not.

sadfasdf > SteveLehto 02/21/2015 at 14:03

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At that point, pressing charges over it would be the dumbest thing someone could do; Streisand Effect.

SteveLehto > sadfasdf 02/21/2015 at 14:27

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Hard to say. In some states it's a felony. You want to see how far a pissed off car salesman will go?

kackel > SteveLehto 02/23/2015 at 16:49

1

I'd be more concerned about the dealer himself/herself. Dealerships generally keep an attorney on retainer, and they don't take kindly to threats of lawsuits. To wit: as soon as an unhappy customer says "sue" or "lawyer", I immediately inform the customer that I can no longer help them and that they will be contacted by our attorney.

Most consumers still fail to realize that they are the problem more often than not, and they make the process of purchasing a vehicle far more difficult and complicated than it needs to be.

kackel > SteveLehto 02/23/2015 at 16:51

0

I'd be more concerned about the dealer himself/herself. Dealerships generally keep an attorney on retainer, and they don't take kindly to threats of lawsuits. To wit: as soon as an unhappy customer says "sue" or "lawyer", I immediately inform the customer that I can no longer help them and that they will be contacted by our attorney.

Most consumers still fail to realize that they are the problem more often than not, and they make the process of purchasing a vehicle far more difficult and complicated than it needs to be.